Where is the Flow

[Yoshiyahu]

When i see alot of WC on youtube and at kwoons it is rigid and hard. The motion has alot of stops and disconnect with in them. Where is the continous motion and flow. Should WC look more like basic Karate? Or should be flowing like a crane. Flow is like water which goes around force or an obstruction to find an opening instead of opposing force with brute strength?

Where is the flow?

What is flow to you?

[AdrianK]

Everyone has their own sense of timing, and everyone is different in terms of how they think and feel. This translates into their fighting.

The "Flow" is just being able to properly time the next movement to achieve your next goal. To "Flow" just for the sake of flowing is counter productive.

Of course that being said, most of what you find on youtube is just utter trash.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is no "flow" in combat, not like the flow we see in static demos and training.
Broken rhythm is the "name of the game" in fighting.

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

There is no "flow" in combat, not like the flow we see in static demos and training.
Broken rhythm is the "name of the game" in fighting.

There always a "flow" needed in combat. Even at Broken rhythm.

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

There is no "flow" in combat, not like the flow we see in static demos and training.
Broken rhythm is the "name of the game" in fighting.

What does Broken Rhythm mean? Please give details on how you stop flowing when your strike doesn't land or you get hit?

[Wu Wei Wu]

Its not about flowing. An opponent/aggressor will seldom provide you an opportunity to "flow". It is about fighting.

A safe training environment would be a great place to let loose your inhibitions and do whatever you feel resembles a state of flowing. However, the street is a more discerning environment, rarely allowing you to flow. It is about fighting.

Gung Fu can be like karate, or it can be like water. Whatever the expression, assessment is not a subjective experience i.e. how does it feel, how does it appear but is objective i.e. how effective was it?

Stop flowing, start fighting.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

There always a "flow" needed in combat. Even at Broken rhythm.

Symantics.
You know very well that when people think flow they think smooth and continous and that just isn't practical.

What does Broken Rhythm mean? Please give details on how you stop flowing when your strike doesn't land or you get hit?

Seriously?

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by Wu Wei Wu

Its not about flowing. An opponent/aggressor will seldom provide you an opportunity to "flow". It is about fighting.

A safe training environment would be a great place to let loose your inhibitions and do whatever you feel resembles a state of flowing. However, the street is a more discerning environment, rarely allowing you to flow. It is about fighting.

Gung Fu can be like karate, or it can be like water. Whatever the expression, assessment is not a subjective experience i.e. how does it feel, how does it appear but is objective i.e. how effective was it?

Stop flowing, start fighting.

When you fight you typically are forced to flow. Thats why its so important to practice and learn flow. Real fights are not i hit, you block and you hit i block motions. Real fights are not rigid. They are continous motions of attacks. An over aggressive person will maul you down continously. The average thug or gangster will throw a non-stop barrage of punches at your head in a continous motion.

So if you practice rigid and static you will have a hard time applying your heart in a real situtation.


Sanjuro please answer my question Seriously!

[-木叶-]

The "Flow" is just being able to properly time the next movement to achieve your next goal. To "Flow" just for the sake of flowing is counter productive.

Very nice reply by AdrianK.

For me, to flow is 源源不絕如大海般波濤洶湧, relentless like the crashing waves
of the great ocean, it is also like blades of tall grass gracefully swaying in the wind, against the merciless beating of the storm.

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by -木叶-

Very nice reply by AdrianK.

For me, to flow is 源源不絕如大海般波濤洶湧, relentless like the crashing waves
of the great ocean, it is also like blades of tall grass gracefully swaying in the wind, against the merciless beating of the storm.

Excellent reply...I will love to use it!

[Hendrik]

Symantics.
You know very well that when people think flow they think smooth and continous and that just isn't practical.

Yup.


What flow within the broken rythm?

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by -木叶-

Very nice reply by AdrianK.

For me, to flow is 源源不絕如大海般波濤洶湧, relentless like the crashing waves
of the great ocean, it is also like blades of tall grass gracefully swaying in the wind, against the merciless beating of the storm.

That is the reason you dont know what is a flow. You speak of ideas instead of reality.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

When i see alot of WC on youtube and at kwoons it is rigid and hard. The motion has alot of stops and disconnect with in them. Where is the continous motion and flow. Should WC look more like basic Karate? Or should be flowing like a crane. Flow is like water which goes around force or an obstruction to find an opening instead of opposing force with brute strength?

Where is the flow?

What is flow to you?

What you are seeing on the video is a person having to think of what to do next. Or in the least trying to make the transition from one technique to the next. In order to flow, you need to train and drill with another person, working with several techniques, one after another. This will train your flow so to speak. You do not need to use the entire system to fight. If you can learn a few good techniques and train to move from one to the next smoothly then you flow.

LCP

[sanjuro_ronin]

Mike Tyson used to KO people with one shot, sometimes in less than 1 minute.
Beautiful "flow" there.

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po

What you are seeing on the video is a person having to think of what to do next. Or in the least trying to make the transition from one technique to the next. In order to flow, you need to train and drill with another person, working with several techniques, one after another. This will train your flow so to speak. You do not need to use the entire system to fight. If you can learn a few good techniques and train to move from one to the next smoothly then you flow.

LCP

Yes, But its about feeling. Its not about mere transition. You allow your opponent to lead you to openings. An you follow your opponents lead when fighting. The flow is continously following the WC principal of attack when you feel nothing, receive what comes and escort what goes. If you follow that principal with continous motion while following your opponent from what you feel when connected then you will flow. WC is about sticking, senstitivity and flow. No set techniques.

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

Mike Tyson used to KO people with one shot, sometimes in less than 1 minute.
Beautiful "flow" there.

Well of course Mike Tyson punches had follow through and retraction. His punches were fluid and not rigid were they? And when Mike Tyson is engaging an opponent does he flow?