Where is the Flow

[Hardwork108]

Originally Posted by Vankuen

No...I understand completely everything that was said, is said, and will be said at this point.

Again, this does not correlate with our past conversation regarding the important aspects of TCMA defense, including sticking, sensitivity and listening.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

I ask questions because I know the human body and want to see what'll you'll say in how qi works in the human body.

It does not really matter what I say if you Vankuen don't practice the art of kung fu in a holistic way including the internals then you will not see where I am coming from.

By the way, this forum is full of people who "know" the human body.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

You must remember that people often times ask questions they already have answers too.

That does not happen too often on threads on the subject matter of authentic kung fu methods and principles.

Sorry to repeat, but based on my past conversation with you on a related subject which I must have mentioned a 100 times here already, and the tone of your entry into this very thread, I can only conclude that you did not have the answers of the questions you were asking. I am not saying that you did not have presumptions but then this forum is full of people like that in regards to traditional kung fu methodology.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

It's a good way to get to know someone.

As if you cared.....lol.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

In terms of flowing...the physical end result will be perceiveably the same. In terms of flowing due to a state of no mind...Zen is what you're talking about and if you understand Zen, it's not focusing in the literal way you're thinking but moreso just doing what you're doing and nothing else--which is pretty much how you put it...you just are. Perhaps I should have used a different word, my apologies.

No need to apologize. The state of "no mind" or "just being" is not an easy one to understand. All I can say on this is that it is a LOT more than repeating actions without thinking.

Let me give you an example. You are doing a chi sao exercise with a partner. You are flowing because you have trained chi sao externally for years. So far, so good. Your partner is not able to get you in any way because you have trained and flow much better than him. You counteract him time and again. Is this a state of "just being"? Not necessarily!

Imagine this, while you are "flowing" with him, a fellow classmate comes over and suddenly strikes at you. There goes your flow as you had not practiced externally for that situation (for the sake of this argument) but if you were just "being" then your level of perception would have been very, very much higher hence you would be less likely to be caught out.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

I understand the internal perspective quite thoroughly, and again that's why I ask you the questions that I do.

Again, based on our past dialogue and the PRESENT one, I am finding that hard to believe.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

Because my understanding of qi is related to my added understanding of how it relates to western medicine and the human body as it is known today.

Which type of qi are you talking about?
Besides, western medicine is largely clueless to qi!

Like a Western doctor friend told me a long time ago, "we know that it [Chinese medicine] works but we don't know how." That pretty much sums it up for me.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

As such I have a good understanding of where to draw the line in the belief of internal qi training and what it can do for you;

I believe that you do not possess enough familiarity and experience to draw the line regarding what internal training can achieve for you.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

unfortunately there is a western component to explain every single thing you've stated can only be attained through internal training.

Western explanation is very limited in its understanding of qi.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

The thing I disagree with the most...is the thought that the internal method is more superior to any other method. That's just plain and simply not true..... Internal training and qi gong is great for what it is--but it doesn't give you any greater ability to fight than any other system does.

I just gave a scenario in this very post that showed an advantage one would have if in the state of "just being".

Furthermore, internal training is not just about chi. There are Nei gung exercises touched upon in the "Dynamic Tension in Forms" thread that are also concerned with internal training and have more "visible" external benefits. If I were you, I would investigate (train???) all of the above and build a better understanding, before drawing any lines, that is if you are really interested, which I doubt as you have had your mind made up about this subject a long time ago.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

Internal training and qi gong is great for what it is--but it doesn't give you any greater ability to fight than any other system does.

It gives you added high level abilities.

You seem to be making a lot of sweeping generalizations for a methodology that you have not yourself trained.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

Nor will not give you a sixth sense of perception or added strength / power.

It can give you all of that and more. Investigate your chi kung and nei gung properly with a real sifu and not with an MMA coach, and you will see.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

However, maintaining "good chi flow" can improve your overall health.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Vankuen

But hey...that's just my opinion. I realize we're not going to all agree on this so it is what it is.

Nope, not the way you are going.

[Hardwork108]

Originally Posted by Vankuen

You haaad to throw in Anderson Silva huh? Way to poke the bear.

Leave Clueless (and he proved it with his latest "contribution" to this thread) Sanjuro alone. Let him live his sexual fantasies with half naked Brazilian men and beavers and so on.

[couch]

Originally Posted by Hardwork108

Leave Clueless (and he proved it with his latest "contribution" to this thread) Sanjuro alone. Let him live his sexual fantasies with half naked Brazilian men and beavers and so on.

Easy there, tiger. Don't go messing around with our Canadian Beaver.

[Hardwork108]

Originally Posted by couch

Easy there, tiger. Don't go messing around with our Canadian Beaver.

Actually, I thought of replacing the "Beaver" with another word of the same implication that starts with "p".

Did you know that Sanjuro does kung fu (rather like Debbie was supposed to have "done" Dallas, I guess). And there are lot of people like him. That will explain the current sad state of kung fu today.

So lets all stand up and thank our Clueless Ronin, specially for his current video clip contribution to this thread which was about flowing.

[couch]

Originally Posted by Hardwork108

Actually, I thought of replacing the "Beaver" with another word of the same implication that starts with "p".

Did you know that Sanjuro does kung fu (rather like Debbie was supposed to have "done" Dallas, I guess). And there are lot of people like him. That will explain the current sad state of kung fu today.

So lets all stand up and thank our Clueless Ronin, specially for his current video clip contribution to this thread which was about flowing.

I'd take Paul's Kung-Fu over a lot of other methods any day.

[k gledhill]

I have only heard good things said about Canadian beaver.....do beavers flow ?

[Vankuen]

I know they like to stop the flow of rivers...

[Hardwork108]

Originally Posted by k gledhill

I have only heard good things said about Canadian beaver.....do beavers flow ?

Have a look at the beaver's "contribution" to this thread and decide for yourself.

[Hardwork108]

Originally Posted by couch

I'd take Paul's Kung-Fu over a lot of other methods any day.

What you are missing , IMHO, is that Paul has karate, he has TKD and a fair bit of kickboxing and MMA which I also believe he may have gotten to a good quality. However, as far as actual authentic kung fu is concerned, he is the good old Clueless Sanjuro, (IMHO).

What I am saying is that it is not wise to confuse good MMA/Kickboxing skills with good authentic kung fu ones, even if the person concerned happens to be good at posting bikini clad women all over the place.

[Hardwork108]

Originally Posted by Vankuen

I know they like to stop the flow of rivers...

Not just rivers.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by k gledhill

I have only heard good things said about Canadian beaver.....do beavers flow ?

Of course they do, everything does

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by Vankuen

I know they like to stop the flow of rivers...

That they do